Given last weeks events this particular conversation seems to have been delayed somewhat, though it's relevance toward me remains the same, simply because I'm aware of any condition does not mean i've changed - that aware ness is only the lesser vehicle. The change is the mahayana, the great vehicle, and that step is the next to grasp, making the change. When the change is made and I begin living of no single accord apart from the universe I will have profoundly realized and applied the Supreme Vehicle, Prajnaparamita, or Kensho.
Curiously enough this conversation led me to belive those steps may be closer together than I may have originally conceived. There have been flukes of perfect action in everyones life, it leads me to believe that these three steps reside somewhat close to eachother in terms of metaphysical distance, if you have sight of one, you have sight of all three, ultimately because they are the same thing granted, but far so more because when you view one thing rightly, everything else you've seen before is there fore also in it's right place and context at that present moment, thus all things, lesser vehicle to supreme are constantly visible, it's whether or not you realize that at the time that determains the physical amount of time space you chose to inhabit until you synch up your understanding.
I think I understand how to gain sight of all three, but I belive some practice with this lesser vehicle is in order, before I attempt to whole mindedly grasp at mahayana in such blatantly abstract methods as zazen.
-------------------
Sir Ukyo: Heya
joujoubah: hi there
Sir Ukyo: All well?
joujoubah: yep
joujoubah: very
joujoubah: how are you
Sir Ukyo: Well. ^_^ sleepy, but well.
Sir Ukyo: How's your show? Still on the air?
joujoubah: yep
joujoubah: im the program director of my station
joujoubah: i do the scheduling
Sir Ukyo: Stud
joujoubah: there's no way they can pull me
Sir Ukyo: *lol* Conveinent.
Sir Ukyo: What sorta stuff do you play anyhow?
joujoubah: you're on aim right?
joujoubah: click file > get file
Sir Ukyo: *chuckles* I don't have a file bar for some reason
joujoubah: um
Sir Ukyo: Must be an old version
joujoubah: you should have the option somewhere
Sir Ukyo wants to get list of files.
Sir Ukyo: ah... right click
Sir Ukyo received C:\Documents and Settings\Will\My Documents\download\SirUkyo\joujoubah.lst.
Sir Ukyo: Jesus H Fuckbeans.
Sir Ukyo: Thats alot of juju you've got in your pocket book kiddo.
Sir Ukyo: Familiar with Zwan of all things.. interesting indeed.
joujoubah: well not that familiar
joujoubah: i only have one of their songs.
joujoubah: but i do have stuff from slint and the guy in zwan was in slint
Sir Ukyo: They just posted their whole albumn on their website.
Sir Ukyo: you should get connected *lol*
Sir Ukyo: www.therocksalt.com
Sir Ukyo: strange and degranged in Utah *l*
joujoubah: who posted their whole album
Sir Ukyo: Zwan has. ^_^
joujoubah: ah
joujoubah: well. i'm not that interested in zwan
Sir Ukyo: Good, they suck. *l*
Sir Ukyo: ^_~ You should get some Keiji Haino... That'll rock the crowd better than Xiu Xiu. o0
Sir Ukyo: Anyhow, sorry to bother, just thought i'd say hello ^_~
joujoubah: i've managed this long not to have any xiu xiu i think i can hold out a little longer
joujoubah: i played the fast car cover on my show and im afraid to listen to anything else.
joujoubah: well, you're not bothering and im not doing anything.
Sir Ukyo: *chuckles* I see.
joujoubah: so. dont back out so quickly
joujoubah: thats just not polite.
Sir Ukyo: Yes mam *lol*
Sir Ukyo: Well I haven't much to offer in the way of conversation, I'm one of those curious parties. I could send you some of my crap, but the last thing we need is bad music between us *lol*
joujoubah: well, i've already seen your mp3 site
joujoubah: and even listened to a few.
Sir Ukyo: *chuckles* too late too late
Sir Ukyo: Oh god, I'm sorry. o0
Sir Ukyo: Nothing on there is very good.
joujoubah: oh good
joujoubah: then i dont have to lie
joujoubah: and pretend i liked it
Sir Ukyo: *chuckles* Very few people like it.
joujoubah: do you like it
Sir Ukyo: It doesn't matter much. It's what I do. Ability and interest are not inextricably bound to eachother.
Sir Ukyo: You might equate it to a pot holding water.
Sir Ukyo: Neither element is bound to the other, they simply work well together in most cases.
Sir Ukyo: Perhaps a riverbed is a better example.
joujoubah: could be.
joujoubah: are you one of those people that feels compelled to find an analogy for everything?
Sir Ukyo: Please, forgive me - I work management and tech support for a living, I've developed the awful habit of "dumbing things down". - I apologise.
joujoubah: no problem. i understand.
joujoubah: im good at plenty of things i find excruciating.
joujoubah: and im good at things im indifferent about.
joujoubah: but its great when im good at things im passionate about
joujoubah: and thats the only way people who make music should really be.
Sir Ukyo: *chuckles* Perhaps indeed. I suppose I am the flaw to that idealology, I do not enjoy playing guitar. I simply enjoy listening to my music over that of anyone else. I've yet to hear music that I enjoyed. That is why I try to make music, not because I want to, but because what I want isn't around yet, the only one who knows what I want to hear is me, and when what I hear from my amp matches what's in my head, then I'll record that and put down my guitar, and go back to what i was doing before I became a "musician".
Sir Ukyo: Curiously enough I've never found my "passion" in life.
joujoubah: i've met people who are passionless. its very sad. so you dont enjoy any music
joujoubah: any artist?
Sir Ukyo: Steven Siro Vai is as close as I've heard to what I wanted to hear, which is what influanced my decision to keep playing guitar, despite my obvious lack of attatchment to the craft. To date I remain an avid fan of Vai, but he's still leauges off from what I'm after, at least in an audible sense.
joujoubah: so aside from what you want to do you find no enjoyment whatsoever out of any other kind of music.
Sir Ukyo: This comes from an over analytical self nature brought about by the delusion of self denial as embedded upon the young mind I was born with - Knowing now what I know of music, composition, performance and orchestration, combined with the engineering aspects of audio, it has become virtually impossible not to find some sort of flaw from my own personal bias on the subject of music in the context of a listener. My ears hear the mistakes, not the virtues, and as a result, much of what may be 'good' music ultimately irritates me due to it lacking in one, or perhaps many catagoreies involved with or related to the process, function, or meaning of music.
Sir Ukyo: That said, it's an addiction to delusion of supposed perfection that shrouds me from enjoying most things. I am a perfectionist, and a horrible one at that.
joujoubah: you have an overinflated sense of self. and you're probably not very happy. ever.
Sir Ukyo: Precisely.
Sir Ukyo: I put on one hell of a good facade though. ^_~
Sir Ukyo: The more I mull it over though, I don't know that anyone is ever truly happy. It seems to me emotions, happyness in particular are chosen responses based on the preception of the first person.
joujoubah: eh.
Sir Ukyo: That spawns further into metaphysics than most people care to discuss however. ^_~
joujoubah: it doesnt matter if things are chosen or not.
Sir Ukyo: Precisely, "eh." will suffice in most cases.
joujoubah: its along the same lines
Sir Ukyo: Oh?
joujoubah: of the argument that no one ever does anything thats not purely selfish
joujoubah: and people always say what about charitable works
joujoubah: and the defense is that that makes you feel good. so its still a selfish act.
joujoubah: anyway to me that argument is pointless
joujoubah: because it doesnt matter how deep you go to find it as a selfish act. the point is how it affects what you're doing now.
Sir Ukyo: Very true.
Sir Ukyo: Ultimately though you do nothing.
Sir Ukyo: Charity does one thing: Remove Consiquence.
joujoubah: i cant believe im talking to someone who doesnt like music.
joujoubah: its very sad.
Sir Ukyo: *chuckles* Not at all.
Sir Ukyo: Infact, I spend a good 3 or 4 hours a day trying to LIKE music.
Sir Ukyo: It is the one element of this life that I -am- partial to; but that doesn't mean I like it.
joujoubah: yeah.
Sir Ukyo: It's been my experiance that few hikers enjoy the acctual "hiking" part... it's the view from the top of the mountain most of them enjoy.
Sir Ukyo: For me to enjoy something, I must completely and totally have a grand mastery of both the facilitation and understanding of composition that go into it.
Sir Ukyo: That said, I enjoy the cookie I'm eating now, because I know how it's made, why it's made, what it's for, and to what end it serves.
Sir Ukyo: I have not discovered this about music, and the frustration of it causes me to lose sight of any joy I may other wise be able to attain from the same thing.
joujoubah: some people find beauty in imperfection.
joujoubah: i think im one of those.
joujoubah: so. we're not very apt to see eye to eye
Sir Ukyo: I strive day by day to become among those people.
joujoubah: well you dont try hard enough
Sir Ukyo: ^_~ I wouldn't say that.
joujoubah: nah
joujoubah: because you try to do that using the same exact methods of analyzation
joujoubah: that got you so fucked in the first place.
Sir Ukyo: ^_~ perhaps indeed.
Sir Ukyo: Thus, I've latched on to a much more powerful tool. ^_~ detatchment from form.
Sir Ukyo: The eraser, if you will.
joujoubah: ah.
Sir Ukyo: ^_~ thats what i said... more or less (more..)
joujoubah: : )
joujoubah: to continue with what you're talking about
joujoubah: would be to shatter the fragile bit of happiness that i've worked hard to attain toda y.
joujoubah: so.
joujoubah: i'll say ah.
Sir Ukyo: ^ ^ - "Because we do not know when we will die, we think of life as an inexhaustable well.... and yet it all seems limitless"
Aaaaah. Life is good. ^_~
Sir Ukyo: ^_^ so what happened that made today a good day?
joujoubah: nothing
Sir Ukyo: Remarkable.
joujoubah: it just is.
joujoubah: em.
Sir Ukyo: *chuckles* well, keep on smilin' then. I'll talk with you later, I've gotta run to the bank before I turn in for the night.
joujoubah: alright.
Sir Ukyo: One last question before I go. - Would it greatly offend you in any way if I published this conversation on my web journal/blog?
joujoubah: nope.
Sir Ukyo: ^_~ thanks.
joujoubah: give me a link though
Curiously enough this conversation led me to belive those steps may be closer together than I may have originally conceived. There have been flukes of perfect action in everyones life, it leads me to believe that these three steps reside somewhat close to eachother in terms of metaphysical distance, if you have sight of one, you have sight of all three, ultimately because they are the same thing granted, but far so more because when you view one thing rightly, everything else you've seen before is there fore also in it's right place and context at that present moment, thus all things, lesser vehicle to supreme are constantly visible, it's whether or not you realize that at the time that determains the physical amount of time space you chose to inhabit until you synch up your understanding.
I think I understand how to gain sight of all three, but I belive some practice with this lesser vehicle is in order, before I attempt to whole mindedly grasp at mahayana in such blatantly abstract methods as zazen.
-------------------
Sir Ukyo: Heya
joujoubah: hi there
Sir Ukyo: All well?
joujoubah: yep
joujoubah: very
joujoubah: how are you
Sir Ukyo: Well. ^_^ sleepy, but well.
Sir Ukyo: How's your show? Still on the air?
joujoubah: yep
joujoubah: im the program director of my station
joujoubah: i do the scheduling
Sir Ukyo: Stud
joujoubah: there's no way they can pull me
Sir Ukyo: *lol* Conveinent.
Sir Ukyo: What sorta stuff do you play anyhow?
joujoubah: you're on aim right?
joujoubah: click file > get file
Sir Ukyo: *chuckles* I don't have a file bar for some reason
joujoubah: um
Sir Ukyo: Must be an old version
joujoubah: you should have the option somewhere
Sir Ukyo wants to get list of files.
Sir Ukyo: ah... right click
Sir Ukyo received C:\Documents and Settings\Will\My Documents\download\SirUkyo\joujoubah.lst.
Sir Ukyo: Jesus H Fuckbeans.
Sir Ukyo: Thats alot of juju you've got in your pocket book kiddo.
Sir Ukyo: Familiar with Zwan of all things.. interesting indeed.
joujoubah: well not that familiar
joujoubah: i only have one of their songs.
joujoubah: but i do have stuff from slint and the guy in zwan was in slint
Sir Ukyo: They just posted their whole albumn on their website.
Sir Ukyo: you should get connected *lol*
Sir Ukyo: www.therocksalt.com
Sir Ukyo: strange and degranged in Utah *l*
joujoubah: who posted their whole album
Sir Ukyo: Zwan has. ^_^
joujoubah: ah
joujoubah: well. i'm not that interested in zwan
Sir Ukyo: Good, they suck. *l*
Sir Ukyo: ^_~ You should get some Keiji Haino... That'll rock the crowd better than Xiu Xiu. o0
Sir Ukyo: Anyhow, sorry to bother, just thought i'd say hello ^_~
joujoubah: i've managed this long not to have any xiu xiu i think i can hold out a little longer
joujoubah: i played the fast car cover on my show and im afraid to listen to anything else.
joujoubah: well, you're not bothering and im not doing anything.
Sir Ukyo: *chuckles* I see.
joujoubah: so. dont back out so quickly
joujoubah: thats just not polite.
Sir Ukyo: Yes mam *lol*
Sir Ukyo: Well I haven't much to offer in the way of conversation, I'm one of those curious parties. I could send you some of my crap, but the last thing we need is bad music between us *lol*
joujoubah: well, i've already seen your mp3 site
joujoubah: and even listened to a few.
Sir Ukyo: *chuckles* too late too late
Sir Ukyo: Oh god, I'm sorry. o0
Sir Ukyo: Nothing on there is very good.
joujoubah: oh good
joujoubah: then i dont have to lie
joujoubah: and pretend i liked it
Sir Ukyo: *chuckles* Very few people like it.
joujoubah: do you like it
Sir Ukyo: It doesn't matter much. It's what I do. Ability and interest are not inextricably bound to eachother.
Sir Ukyo: You might equate it to a pot holding water.
Sir Ukyo: Neither element is bound to the other, they simply work well together in most cases.
Sir Ukyo: Perhaps a riverbed is a better example.
joujoubah: could be.
joujoubah: are you one of those people that feels compelled to find an analogy for everything?
Sir Ukyo: Please, forgive me - I work management and tech support for a living, I've developed the awful habit of "dumbing things down". - I apologise.
joujoubah: no problem. i understand.
joujoubah: im good at plenty of things i find excruciating.
joujoubah: and im good at things im indifferent about.
joujoubah: but its great when im good at things im passionate about
joujoubah: and thats the only way people who make music should really be.
Sir Ukyo: *chuckles* Perhaps indeed. I suppose I am the flaw to that idealology, I do not enjoy playing guitar. I simply enjoy listening to my music over that of anyone else. I've yet to hear music that I enjoyed. That is why I try to make music, not because I want to, but because what I want isn't around yet, the only one who knows what I want to hear is me, and when what I hear from my amp matches what's in my head, then I'll record that and put down my guitar, and go back to what i was doing before I became a "musician".
Sir Ukyo: Curiously enough I've never found my "passion" in life.
joujoubah: i've met people who are passionless. its very sad. so you dont enjoy any music
joujoubah: any artist?
Sir Ukyo: Steven Siro Vai is as close as I've heard to what I wanted to hear, which is what influanced my decision to keep playing guitar, despite my obvious lack of attatchment to the craft. To date I remain an avid fan of Vai, but he's still leauges off from what I'm after, at least in an audible sense.
joujoubah: so aside from what you want to do you find no enjoyment whatsoever out of any other kind of music.
Sir Ukyo: This comes from an over analytical self nature brought about by the delusion of self denial as embedded upon the young mind I was born with - Knowing now what I know of music, composition, performance and orchestration, combined with the engineering aspects of audio, it has become virtually impossible not to find some sort of flaw from my own personal bias on the subject of music in the context of a listener. My ears hear the mistakes, not the virtues, and as a result, much of what may be 'good' music ultimately irritates me due to it lacking in one, or perhaps many catagoreies involved with or related to the process, function, or meaning of music.
Sir Ukyo: That said, it's an addiction to delusion of supposed perfection that shrouds me from enjoying most things. I am a perfectionist, and a horrible one at that.
joujoubah: you have an overinflated sense of self. and you're probably not very happy. ever.
Sir Ukyo: Precisely.
Sir Ukyo: I put on one hell of a good facade though. ^_~
Sir Ukyo: The more I mull it over though, I don't know that anyone is ever truly happy. It seems to me emotions, happyness in particular are chosen responses based on the preception of the first person.
joujoubah: eh.
Sir Ukyo: That spawns further into metaphysics than most people care to discuss however. ^_~
joujoubah: it doesnt matter if things are chosen or not.
Sir Ukyo: Precisely, "eh." will suffice in most cases.
joujoubah: its along the same lines
Sir Ukyo: Oh?
joujoubah: of the argument that no one ever does anything thats not purely selfish
joujoubah: and people always say what about charitable works
joujoubah: and the defense is that that makes you feel good. so its still a selfish act.
joujoubah: anyway to me that argument is pointless
joujoubah: because it doesnt matter how deep you go to find it as a selfish act. the point is how it affects what you're doing now.
Sir Ukyo: Very true.
Sir Ukyo: Ultimately though you do nothing.
Sir Ukyo: Charity does one thing: Remove Consiquence.
joujoubah: i cant believe im talking to someone who doesnt like music.
joujoubah: its very sad.
Sir Ukyo: *chuckles* Not at all.
Sir Ukyo: Infact, I spend a good 3 or 4 hours a day trying to LIKE music.
Sir Ukyo: It is the one element of this life that I -am- partial to; but that doesn't mean I like it.
joujoubah: yeah.
Sir Ukyo: It's been my experiance that few hikers enjoy the acctual "hiking" part... it's the view from the top of the mountain most of them enjoy.
Sir Ukyo: For me to enjoy something, I must completely and totally have a grand mastery of both the facilitation and understanding of composition that go into it.
Sir Ukyo: That said, I enjoy the cookie I'm eating now, because I know how it's made, why it's made, what it's for, and to what end it serves.
Sir Ukyo: I have not discovered this about music, and the frustration of it causes me to lose sight of any joy I may other wise be able to attain from the same thing.
joujoubah: some people find beauty in imperfection.
joujoubah: i think im one of those.
joujoubah: so. we're not very apt to see eye to eye
Sir Ukyo: I strive day by day to become among those people.
joujoubah: well you dont try hard enough
Sir Ukyo: ^_~ I wouldn't say that.
joujoubah: nah
joujoubah: because you try to do that using the same exact methods of analyzation
joujoubah: that got you so fucked in the first place.
Sir Ukyo: ^_~ perhaps indeed.
Sir Ukyo: Thus, I've latched on to a much more powerful tool. ^_~ detatchment from form.
Sir Ukyo: The eraser, if you will.
joujoubah: ah.
Sir Ukyo: ^_~ thats what i said... more or less (more..)
joujoubah: : )
joujoubah: to continue with what you're talking about
joujoubah: would be to shatter the fragile bit of happiness that i've worked hard to attain toda y.
joujoubah: so.
joujoubah: i'll say ah.
Sir Ukyo: ^ ^ - "Because we do not know when we will die, we think of life as an inexhaustable well.... and yet it all seems limitless"
Aaaaah. Life is good. ^_~
Sir Ukyo: ^_^ so what happened that made today a good day?
joujoubah: nothing
Sir Ukyo: Remarkable.
joujoubah: it just is.
joujoubah: em.
Sir Ukyo: *chuckles* well, keep on smilin' then. I'll talk with you later, I've gotta run to the bank before I turn in for the night.
joujoubah: alright.
Sir Ukyo: One last question before I go. - Would it greatly offend you in any way if I published this conversation on my web journal/blog?
joujoubah: nope.
Sir Ukyo: ^_~ thanks.
joujoubah: give me a link though
posted by Renge at 6/16/2003 11:42:00 AM
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